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_____________________ Search Login | Signup * Featured * People * Blogs * Photos * Videos * Groups * Forums * Chat * Wiki * Wizards of the Coast Community _____________________ [___________] Go Classic View Magic: The Gathering Decks to Beat 'The Mountains Win Again': Popular Rogue Archetype Content View Jump Menu: [_____________________________________________________] Post Reply Page 1 of 4 o 1 2 3 4 Next 'The Mountains Win Again': Popular Rogue Archetype 2 years ago :: Mar 30, 2008 - 11:01AM #1 So this deck used to basically be RW and then it morphed into a RWb or RWbu Hide // Seek Fish deck brought about by Chapin. I've finally decided that RB is the best way to go with this deck such that you can really hose decks with the power of a single threat: Magus Of The Moon[IMG]. This is my Magus of the Moon version of 'The Mountains Win Again.' I'd like to know what you all think about its ability to combat the current contenders in the field. Every rogue strategy like this is going to be inherently underpowered, but these sorts of strategies thrive against decks running a great deal of 'POWER' go figure. Think of this deck kinda like Stax. It dumps its hand and then tries to keep the opponent off threats while beating for the win. The difference is that this deck runs direct Discard which in every way just seems >>>>> Sphere effects right now. The threats are smaller than those of Stax, but there is more consistency and synergy within the deck IMO. Here's my current list of TMWA. 'The Mountains Win Again' Land (17): 4 Bloodstained Mire[IMG] 2 Polluted Delta[IMG] 2 Badlands[IMG] 4 Swamp[IMG] 1 Mountain[IMG] 1 Strip Mine[IMG] 3 Wasteland[IMG] Artifacts (7): 1 Black Lotus[IMG] 1 Lotus Petal[IMG] 1 Mox Ruby[IMG] Stormanimagus 1 Mox Jet[IMG] Stormanimagus 1 Sol Ring[IMG] Posts: 333 2 Umezawa's Jitte[IMG] Date Joined: 09/16/05 Creatures (17): 4 Dark Confidant[IMG] 4 Magus Of The Moon[IMG] 3 Grim Lavamancer[IMG] 2 Jagged Poppet[IMG] 4 Simian Spirit Guide[IMG] Enchantments (3): 3 Chains Of Mephistopheles[IMG] Instants (5): 4 Red Elemental Blast[IMG] 1 Vampiric Tutor[IMG] Sorceries (11): 3 Duress[IMG] 4 Cabal Therapy[IMG] 3 Thoughtseize[IMG] 1 Demonic Tutor[IMG] SB 2 Rack And Ruin[IMG] 4 Extirpate[IMG] 4 Leyline Of The Void[IMG] 1 Jagged Poppet[IMG] 1 Diabolic Edict[IMG] 1 Umezawa's Jitte[IMG] 2 Pyroblast[IMG] Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Mar 30, 2008 - 11:59AM #2 I personally think that the mox monkey deserves space in the main, and the numbers for duress and therapy should be switched. Also, Dan thought that there should be 6 moon effects after board and that it was unneeded to run mountains, also that strips and wastes didn't fit too well. (Note too that TMWA is a highly flexible deck where the only requirements are for it to be "non-blue fish") I still bring out a B/R TMWA deck for casual games. My list is suited to a more shop heavy environment. I try to go for an extremely fast disruptive start and let the amazingness of magus and chains/poppet finish up the game. Spoiler: Show // Lands 6 Swamp 4 Badlands 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Wasteland // Creatures 4 Dark Confidant 2 Jagged Poppet 4 Magus of the Moon 4 Putrid Imp glwiley 2 Gorilla Shaman glwiley 1 Viashino Heretic Posts: 1,481 // Enchantments Date Joined: 07/06/07 2 Chains of Mephistopheles 2 Planar Void // Spells 2 Diabolic Edict 3 Extirpate 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 4 Duress 4 Unmask // Artifacts 1 Lotus Petal 2 Umezawa's Jitte 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby // Sideboard SB: 4 Pithing Needle SB: 2 Pyroblast SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast SB: 4 Shattering Spree SB: 1 Viashino Heretic Vintage Deckbuilding-Your First Vintage Tournament Yes, that IS a picture of me that I am using for my avatar. Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Mar 30, 2008 - 1:14PM #3 glwiley wrote: I personally think that the mox monkey deserves space in the main, and the numbers for duress and therapy should be switched. Also, Dan thought that there should be 6 moon effects after board and that it was unneeded to run mountains, also that strips and wastes didn't fit too well. (Note too that TMWA is a highly flexible deck where the only requirements are for it to be "non-blue fish") I still bring out a B/R TMWA deck for casual games. My list is suited to a more shop heavy environment. I try to go for an extremely fast disruptive start and let the amazingness of magus and chains/poppet finish up the game. Spoiler: Show // Lands 6 Swamp 4 Badlands 4 Bloodstained Mire 4 Wasteland // Creatures 4 Dark Confidant 2 Jagged Poppet 4 Magus of the Moon 4 Putrid Imp 2 Gorilla Shaman 1 Viashino Heretic // Enchantments 2 Chains of Mephistopheles 2 Planar Void // Spells 2 Diabolic Edict 3 Extirpate 1 Vampiric Tutor 1 Demonic Tutor 4 Duress 4 Unmask Stormanimagus // Artifacts Stormanimagus 1 Lotus Petal Posts: 333 2 Umezawa's Jitte Date Joined: 09/16/05 1 Black Lotus 1 Mox Jet 1 Mox Ruby // Sideboard SB: 4 Pithing Needle SB: 2 Pyroblast SB: 4 Red Elemental Blast SB: 4 Shattering Spree SB: 1 Viashino Heretic I think you highly overrate Gorilla Shaman. Most decks don't run full power right now and Shaman is really only good at eating moxen. I dunno. mebbie he's better than I'm giving him credit for, but, in the current Flash/Tyrant/Storm heavy meta I'd rather have other disruption and Grim Lavamancer to try and finish the job once I've stabalized. Also, consider that, with mox monkey out, they'll just hold off on moxen until they can use them to win that turn. I think the power of the monkey has faded as the format has become more quick. Just my opinion though. Therapy is the glue of this deck. I would never go to 3. Being able to discard a specific card from their hand even after THEY'VE duressed you on turn 1 by simply casting a guy is invaluable to me. In general, having 2 discard spells in 1 card is just plain CA that can't be denied. Mind explaining your reasoning? Also, I realize this is a highly flexible archetype with many different color schemes (I've tried em all. RW, RWB, RWBg, RWBu-for ancestral and time walk so the blue doesn't really count-, RGw), but I've now found that RB seems to have the best options for the current meta IMO. I'd like to know what Dan thinks of my list too. Can I PM him on TMD? As for your list. Cards I question are: Putrid Imp Shaman/Heretic (lack of good Stax out there) Planar Void (too slow to have an effect against Flash if they are on the play and can be countered by FoW. Leyline seems better) Unmask (I actually don't hate this choice, but I'd like a little more explanation on it from you) Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Mar 30, 2008 - 1:53PM #4 First here is the link to the "current" TMWA thread (mostly discussing RB build) www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=343... I say cut one therapy for one duress because your creatures are all supposed to be important lock down elements. As to shaman and heretic, my list was geared towards shop decks but heretic stops tinker colossus from being a viable out for your opponent (heretic hits faster) and the monkey goes along with being as disruptive as possible in the first 1-2 turns (a glwiley must for every current viable deck in vintage), though his slot isn't set in stone by glwiley any means. Posts: 1,481 Date Joined: 07/06/07 The putrid imp is there for two reasons, 1 to ensure an active poppet whenever I want, even with bob on the table, and to have a flying jitte (both can be very important). Unmask is there, once again, to increase the speed in which this deck interacts. Void over Leyline is simply because I didn't have 4 slots for it, Leyline is better, but if you don't run 4 it's pointless, Void gives you an out against ichorid and shuts off will plans (the deck was made before flash got popular, so it certainly needs some tweaking). Vintage Deckbuilding-Your First Vintage Tournament Yes, that IS a picture of me that I am using for my avatar. Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Mar 30, 2008 - 8:29PM #5 glwiley wrote: First here is the link to the "current" TMWA thread (mostly discussing RB build) www.themanadrain.com/index.php?topic=343... I say cut one therapy for one duress because your creatures are all supposed to be important lock down elements. As to shaman and heretic, my list was geared towards shop decks but heretic stops tinker colossus from being a viable out for your opponent (heretic hits faster) and the monkey goes along with being as disruptive as possible in the first 1-2 turns (a must for every current viable deck in vintage), though his slot isn't set in stone by any means. The putrid imp is there for two reasons, 1 to ensure an active poppet whenever I want, even with bob on the table, and to have a flying jitte (both can be very important). Unmask is there, once again, to increase the speed in which this deck interacts. Void over Leyline is simply because I didn't have 4 slots for it, Leyline is better, but if you don't run 4 it's pointless, Void gives you an out against ichorid and shuts off will plans (the deck was made before flash got popular, so it certainly needs some tweaking). I think putrid Imp is a poor synergy with the rest of your deck and a bad way to acheive hellbent. I'd rather just play all my dudes. Here's a poppet list that I'm working on. Howl Of Seven Moons Land (18): 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta 3 Badlands 4 Swamp Stormanimagus 3 Ancient Tomb Stormanimagus 1 Strip Mine Posts: 333 1 Wasteland Date Joined: 09/16/05 Artifacts (5): 1 Black Lotus 1 Lotus Petal 1 Mox Ruby 1 Mox Jet 1 Sol Ring Creatures (13): 4 Jagged Poppet 4 Magus Of The Moon 4 Simian Spirit Guide 1 Phyrexian Negator Enchantments (6): 3 Chains Of Mephistopheles 3 Blood Moon Instants (9): 4 Red Elemental Blast 4 Snuff Out 1 Vampiric Tutor Sorceries (9): 4 Duress 4 Unmask 1 Demonic Tutor SB 3 Extirpate 4 Leyline Of The Void 3 Viashino Heretic 1 Phyrexian Negator 4 Chalice Of The Void I'm too tired to discuss right now, but I'll get to the card choices a bit later. Cheers! Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Apr 06, 2008 - 9:07AM #6 After some suggestions from Dan at TMD here is my updated BR TMWA: BR `The Mountains Win Again' Land (18): 4 Bloodstained Mire 2 Polluted Delta 3 Badlands 6 Swamp 2 Mishra's Factory 1 Strip Mine Artifacts (6): 1 Black Lotus (0) 1 Lotus Petal (0) 1 Mox Ruby (0) 1 Mox Jet (0) 2 Umezawa's Jitte (2) Creatures (15): 3 Gorilla Shamanm (R) 4 Dark Confidant (1B) 4 Magus Of The Moon (2R) Stormanimagus 4 Simian Spirit Guide (2R) Stormanimagus Posts: 333 Enchantments (3): Date Joined: 09/16/05 2 Chains Of Mephistopheles (1B) 1 Blood Moon (2R) Instants (7): 3 Red Elemental Blast (R) 1 Vampiric Tutor (B) 3 Extirpate (B) Sorceries (11): 4 Cabal Therapy (B) 3 Duress (B) 3 Thoughtseize (B) 1 Demonic Tutor (1B) SB 2 Rack And Ruin (2R) 2 Viashino Heretic (2R) 1 Blood Moon (2R) 1 Chains Of Mephistopheles (1B) 4 Leyline Of The Void (2BB) 2 Goblin Bombardment (1R) 1 Umezawa's Jitte (2) 1 Pyroclasm (1R) 1 Red Elemental Blast (R) Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Apr 14, 2008 - 9:16PM #7 obesechicken tell me if theres something i dont know, but. obesechicken -1 swamp Posts: 35 +1 badlands Date Joined: 10/20/07 Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Apr 19, 2008 - 6:52PM #8 ITSallfun ITSallfun what, if i may ask, is so good about jagged poppet? he seems a little weird to me. Posts: 332 Date Joined: 03/03/07 Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Apr 19, 2008 - 7:24PM #9 Comradetype2 ITSallfun wrote: Comradetype2 Posts: 1,068 what, if i may ask, is so good about jagged poppet? he seems a little weird to me. Date Joined: 11/18/06 He makes your opponent discard his/her hand. It's just that he's crap with Confidant. Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 2 years ago :: Apr 20, 2008 - 8:09AM #10 ITSallfun ITSallfun would mogg fanatics work? I havent seen any builds using it. Posts: 332 Date Joined: 03/03/07 Quick Reply Submit Post Cancel [ ] Quote message in reply? 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